You have just entered room "engcitguy Chat02." girl5024 has entered the room. EricLBecker1982 has entered the room. engcitguy: hey now girl5024: I'M EARLY!!! engcitguy: hold on while i finish prepping. EricLBecker1982: I had a bunch of ENG 103 students IMing me last night asking me about their papers and tests. ::Laughs:: engcitguy: heheh engcitguy: howd you get on their list? EricLBecker1982: It seems that a question I asked about the test got sent out to that group. EricLBecker1982: I don't know, I didn't get the e-mail that they were talking about. girl5024 has left the room. engcitguy: interesting..not sure how that happened engcitguy: br engcitguy: brb EricLBecker1982: They told me they got some e-mail from you about test stuff and that an e-mail from me was attached, so they IMed me on my regular AOL name and started asking me about English 103 stuff. Needless to say, I was lost. girl5024 has entered the room. girl5024: sorry got disconnected engcitguy: sorry about that EricLBecker1982: Girl, apparently the room can't handle your energy tonight! EricLBecker1982: Oh, it's all right, the English 103 people were very talkative, much moreso than the English 101 people. ::Laughs:: girl5024: sorry... have my son clinging to my side engcitguy: any questions about the test? engcitguy: it's likely many will want to discuss it in specific tonight engcitguy: but so far you are the only ones here girl5024: the first is on thursday, right? engcitguy: yes girl5024: k EricLBecker1982: I set my appointment for Thursday evening at 7 P.M. after I get off of work. engcitguy: ok girl5024: having trouble typing tonight?? hehehe EricLBecker1982: The test covers Character and "Bride", right? engcitguy: yes EricLBecker1982: It's his speech-to-type program. FRECKLS4ME has entered the room. girl5024: it doesn't work to well if you ask me engcitguy: i am eating girl5024: talking with your mouth full? haha EricLBecker1982: Ah, so extra letter j's and "ruggru bugru bug"s will get in there? engcitguy: indeed engcitguy: yes engcitguy: anyway engcitguy: any other general questions about the test EricLBecker1982: I'm assuming that it's all essay answer? engcitguy: absolutely engcitguy: just like a paper engcitguy: only shorter engcitguy: intro should have author engcitguy: title EricLBecker1982: Complete sentences and all those fun things. engcitguy: your point engcitguy: in this case, that will be... engcitguy: yes engcitguy: and spelllllling counts EricLBecker1982: Will it be one question or many questions? engcitguy: hehehe engcitguy: one EricLBecker1982: All right. engcitguy: you already know the question EricLBecker1982: So I can't rite lyk this thein, huh? engcitguy: do you folks want to discuss the test? engcitguy: heheh engcitguy: you can engcitguy: but yer grade will suck FRECKLS4ME: the question is about character, right? Mandrini87 has entered the room. engcitguy: yes freckles FRECKLS4ME: thanks EricLBecker1982: I'm going to make sure that I understand the question...you may remember my blunder with comprehending the concept of the due date. engcitguy: if you folks want to discuss the test, I will monitor the conversation. FRECKLS4ME: The test has to be completed by Feb 1, correct? engcitguy: yes engcitguy: I encourage you to discuss possible answers to the test, but I will neither confirm nor deny any answers are given. I expect you to ask each other the same questions I would ask you. In other words show me were you got the answer that you did FRECKLS4ME: can I ask a question unrelated to the test? engcitguy: I will be here to clarify specific terms etc., but I will not comment on its applicability to this particular story engcitguy: yes freckles FRECKLS4ME: how long does it take to get a response from turnitin? EricLBecker1982: Okay, just to clarify what it has to do with character....am I right in assuming that our test essay will be covering the aspects of the characters within the story "A Bride Comes To Yellow Sky"? engcitguy: about 24 hours freckles FRECKLS4ME: thanks engcitguy: what aspects Eric FRECKLS4ME: thats what i understand too. EricLBecker1982: As in flat, round, static, developing, etc. engcitguy: in other words, if I were to ask you about character, what specific things are you going to talk about L8T Jayde has entered the room. engcitguy: exactly Mandrini87: Question (First Paper related): If no one chooses to edit my first paper, should I turn it in directly to you engcitguy, and if not, how long should I wait before the deadline? I'm expecting to have some corrective surgery done Friday and don't think I'll be in any shape to turn anything then, let alone type on a computer. engcitguy: do you folks want to discuss the test? girl5024: i'm not too good at writing essays, can someone stay on with me for a few min after the chat to give me some help on writing body paragraphs? L8T Jayde: What have I missed? EricLBecker1982: All right, I just wanted to make sure I was understanding that right. engcitguy: man, all you can do is post your paper on turnit in.com. If no one reviews it, you have done your part. engcitguy: not much J. engcitguy: we are discussing the test and papers in general engcitguy: your understanding perfectly Eric EricLBecker1982: Also, in regards to turnitin....we're supposed to read a paper and then submit our critique on the message boards, correct? engcitguy: correct engcitguy: mention it by title EricLBecker1982: All right, can do. engcitguy: be sure to analyze the intended goals of the paper, not whether you liked it or not engcitguy: in other words, whether the author has used text, literary terms, etc. girl5024: eric, who are you talking to? EricLBecker1982: That makes sense.....it would be boring to get 50 posts saying "I really liked this paper a lot." engcitguy: has used text engcitguy: exactly EricLBecker1982: I am talking to Professer Eiland, thank you. FRECKLS4ME: what if your not sure about your own paper, how do you review someone else's engcitguy: once again, are you folks ready to discuss the test story, bride comes to yellow sky EricLBecker1982: Well, I suppose we could. EricLBecker1982: It's either that or the Super Bowl commericals, and I've heard enough about those already. girl5024: text meaning basic quotes from the book? engcitguy: freckles, that is a good question. The whole purpose behind peer editing is to do several things. engcitguy: 1. You get a general idea whether or not your paper in terms of style and content is in the same ballpark as everyone else engcitguy: 2. Perhaps the deficiencies in another paper will alert you to the deficiencies in your own engcitguy: 3. Perhaps some of the positive aspects of the other paper will remind you what to include in your own engcitguy: yes girl girl5024: thanks engcitguy: you're welcome FRECKLS4ME: i was afraid to read someone else's before i finished mine for fear i would put the to together engcitguy: the same goes for discussing the test before hand. For many of you, you don't know if you're on the right track. But knowing what others think may help you to formulate yer own ideas. Just because someone says something, does not make it right. But if their observations seem to coincide with yours, perhaps you're both on the right track, especially if you can SUPPORT YOUR ANSWER FRECKLS4ME: are we graded on our review of someone else's paper engcitguy: your participation grade suffers if you do not review another paper L8T Jayde: really I didn't know this Mandrini87: Engcitguy: I never picked up on where exactly (under which folder) on the message board we should post our reviews. Please clarify. engcitguy: then I'm glad you're here J. EricLBecker1982: So an adequate review gets us full credit for that specific assignment. FRECKLS4ME: okay, does it suffer if we review in incorrectly EricLBecker1982: (Not the paper itself, but the review of the paper.) engcitguy: man, it is under the folder called PEER EDIT engcitguy: freckles, if you review incorrectly, I will explain to you what you're missing, and perhaps that will help you improve your own paper FRECKLS4ME: okay thank you that's great. engcitguy: in awards, if you focus on how well the author discuss the plot, then you yourself would not be showing that you know what I am looking for. If the review is off the point, I remind you in a private message telling you where to re focus your attention L8T Jayde: I have been there to read up on some the to see how mine is comparing to theirs but not to peer edit. I guess I will be doing this tonight also along with a million other things. engcitguy: anything else about the pier edit function FRECKLS4ME: i'm right there with you jayde engcitguy: for those who actually attend class on Tuesdays, their peer editing is done then L8T Jayde: attend class? EricLBecker1982: He's got an Integrated class that meets on Tuesdays. engcitguy: also be aware that one of the functions of that program is it tells me if someone is plagiarizing someone else's paper engcitguy: yes L8T Jayde: thanks engcitguy: and anyone is welcome to attend engcitguy: your welcome engcitguy: anything else about the paper EricLBecker1982: Out of curiosity, what time on Tuesdays does it meet? girl5024: if we attend do we have to do that chat too? engcitguy: 11 to 1220 in LB 310 engcitguy: no girl engcitguy: not that you would want to miss all this excitement EricLBecker1982: Ah...well, I've got basketball during that time, but if that class ever gets cancelled, I'll stop by. engcitguy: feel free Eric L8T Jayde: I'm at work fighting with kids at that time engcitguy: well, if you get a chance between rounds, stop on by J. girl5024: lucky you jayde L8T Jayde: Oh I will EricLBecker1982: (Intramural, of course.....if I had enough talent to make the varsity team, I wouldn't be working in child care. ::Laughs::-) L8T Jayde: Ha Ha engcitguy: any other questions about the paper L8T Jayde: yes, am I still able to post mine and get that credit I have had lots of trouble with getting it started engcitguy: post your what J engcitguy: comments about chat? L8T Jayde: paper Mandrini87: engcitguy: regarding the test, I took it. 50 minutes was not sufficient time to do it although it seemed to pose a simple question(s). If one takes longer than that, are they penalized? EricLBecker1982: turnitin.com was having some problems with returning information to the client side (that's my computer for those who aren't familiar with web jargon) a couple of times when I tried accessing it. engcitguy: it would have to be tonight, because with the 24-hour turnaround time, it is unlikely you get any comments before the first L8T Jayde: ok I can do that will this hurt my grade? engcitguy: if turnitin is not working, Eric, then that's not your fault. However, I have been checking turnitin on a regular basis and it always seems to work for me engcitguy: No J. engcitguy: man, your comment is not new. The reality is that everyone who takes English 101 at citrus college has to take an exit exam that takes 50 minutes. There is no extra time allowed. That is why all written exams in English 101 are only allowed 50 minutes timallen8 has entered the room. timallen8: Hello engcitguy: more to the point, the questions that you're asked for a cast are designed for a short answer timallen8: Bonnie hello Mandrini87: You're drive a hard deal, Mr. E. engcitguy: as for the test engcitguy: hey now tim and Bonnie timallen8: YO L8T Jayde: good first paper seems to have freaked me out having to study for this paper and the test on two different stories have lost me but with some help from my friends I think I will be able to catch up FRECKLS4ME: test on two stories??? girl5024: bride and character girl5024: right?? EricLBecker1982: Freckls: Jayde meant to say the paper's on one story and the test is on a different story. L8T Jayde: no my paper and the test sorry engcitguy: the point is that a class like this is designed to get you to do a great deal of reading and writing. That is because as you take harder in her class is the amount of reading and writing will increase. You have had a couple weeks to work on your paper. engcitguy: And the test only needs to be five paragraphs. You know what the topic is. It should be a fairly short concise answer, using the story to back up your answer FRECKLS4ME: okay engcitguy: That is because as you take harder and harder classes.. Mandrini87: I was only given one testpaper on "Bride". I wasn't aware the only 5 paragraph limit on the test. engcitguy: man, I'm telling you the minimum requirements engcitguy: if you can write seven paragraphs in that time, knock yourself out EricLBecker1982: 5 paragraphs....5 BODY paragraphs, or 5 total paragraphs? engcitguy: what is expected is a fairly short concise answer that can be answered in 50 minutes and in five paragraphs engcitguy: five total engcitguy: intro engcitguy: conclusion engcitguy: three in the middle EricLBecker1982: All right...with the opening thesis thing and the conclusion, okay, that makes sense. girl5024: basically a short essay? engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: and papers are long essays engcitguy: designed for detail and many examples engcitguy: are you folks ready to discuss the test girl5024: sure Mandrini87: Well, I guess so, in my case (hindsight is 20/20 as they say). engcitguy: discuss character in bride comes yellow sky engcitguy: who wants to start engcitguy: the silence is deafening FRECKLS4ME: i have another question when you use a small quote such as "another color" from Once upon a time, do you still need to reference the author and page number engcitguy: yes...any use of any of the authors words, even one specific word in any particular context, should be quoted and then cited correctly FRECKLS4ME: thank you engcitguy: you're welcome EricLBecker1982: All the characters in the bar are flat. They just sit there drinking and worry about Scratchy Wilson and his gun and talk about what would happen if Potter was in town and that's about all that those characters do. engcitguy: a reminder folks: whether the characters are round or flat you must explain why, using the specific terms as explained on the Web site and in the book timallen8: Inner conflict? Change? engcitguy: exactly tim... EricLBecker1982: No inner conflict, no change, all they do is sit around drinking and then their drinking gets interrupted. They're static. engcitguy: stereotype and stock as well Mandrini87: I agree the characters were flat, however Wilson seemed to have enough complexity to make him an endearing character, the book mentioned he was "tender" in his gazes at his wife, he "gleefully" (as if boyishly) showed off his watch, he courageously faced Scratchy without a gun, but at the same time, he was your basic stereotypical good guy. Mandrini87: Sorry not wilson, Potter. engcitguy: keep the names straight too engcitguy: heheh Mandrini87: You got it, I'm getting senile in my 30's EricLBecker1982: Potter was stock. The good-guy-gun-slinger-hero type. There was a personal touch, though: he didn't draw a gun (he didn't even have one in the story) and he had his wife next to him. Mandrini87: Scratchy and Potter seemed to be overgrown kids coming to the realization that it was time to grow up. Scratchy realized that a little later on after he realized the implications of his "nemesis" getting married. Almost as if he was disappointed that his playpal moved on in life. timallen8: BOnnie -refresh my memory on what a stock character means EricLBecker1982: Stock character...a stereo-typed character that appears in many different stories. engcitguy: stock is a reg char that shows up constantly...becomes so blatant it is easy to id engcitguy: hero engcitguy: bad guy engcitguy: evil genius engcitguy: damsel in distress EricLBecker1982: Sleuth timallen8: Bonnie- ok I understand timallen8: BOnnie - thanks engcitguy: knight in shining etc engcitguy: any other comments? engcitguy: is that it? EricLBecker1982: Sorry...went to the bathroom. engcitguy: thanks fer sharing EricLBecker1982: Scratchy Wilson: Also a stock character. girl5024: sorry too, working on my essay at the same time timallen8: BOnnie is searching for her spectacles engcitguy: when yer done talking test we can talk about theme EricLBecker1982: Bad-guy stock character at that. engcitguy: ok Mandrini87: Sorry everyone, gotta split, this isn't my computer and the owner will have a coronary if I don't get off. I'll reference this chat in the archives tomorrow. Ciao' timallen8: Are we on theme now? Mandrini87 has left the room. timallen8: Does this chat usually start at 7? engcitguy: yes tim engcitguy: i will start in theme when the testers say DONE timallen8: Are we starting a new story? EricLBecker1982: Does anybody else here see Scratchy Wilson as a rounded character? timallen8: I do but I shan't say anything engcitguy: hehehe timallen8: Or maybe I don't engcitguy: heheheh EricLBecker1982: I think he's rounded and developing in that he basically grows up. The time span is reasonable...perhaps he's sobered up a bit from his drinking? timallen8: He is old. EricLBecker1982: That part of the story occurs in such a short amount of time, I believe it's reasonable to say that Scratchy's character goes through a change. timallen8: BOnnie - how does growing up make him round? Eric FRECKLS4ME: what makes you say hes old. Did i miss that somewhere in the story engcitguy: folks, the general rule for the difference between a static character in a changing character is fundamental change. You must show fundamental change of if you think the character has evolved EricLBecker1982: A good point. timallen8: he was from an earlier generation. A child of the plains. engcitguy: folks, remember that an author includes detail in story because it is important to the story. How well you remember the details may often be a determiner whether or not you understand the authors point FRECKLS4ME: what change are you talking about eric EricLBecker1982: Well, at first introduction, Scratchy Wilson seems intent to get into a gun fight, particularly with Potter, then when he finds out that Potter has gotten married, his view on it changes....the problem with short stories is that within their shortness, you don't know the events that occurred BEFORE the setting that the author has set up for the reader. timallen8: The author does provide info on what happened before the story through the men at the bar EricLBecker1982: Provides information, but only a look at past events, not at the full reasons behind them. engcitguy: general point that I may have mentioned before, and certainly could mention again, is that all the information you need is included in story. The author only includes information if it is necessary. and the author does not include information that does not matter EricLBecker1982: So we make our analysis based solely on the contents of what's in the story then. engcitguy: yes engcitguy: oftentimes, a big big mistake made by students is inserting their opinion, their experiences, or their own tendencies into a work when the author has clearly stated how acharacter feels timallen8: did you discuss theme in class today before Bonnie and myself arrived engcitguy: no Allen engcitguy: but I do need to get started on it so that we can get onto the More difficult and more useful thematic elements FRECKLS4ME: MORE difficult, thanks! girl5024: no kidding! engcitguy: after this test and after this paper, I will never ask you again whether or not a character is round or flat or a story is interpretive or escapist engcitguy: no kidding engcitguy: anytime freckles engcitguy: 8~) FRECKLS4ME: THANK YOU AGAIN!! EricLBecker1982: All right, we can move onto theme if nobody else wants to discuss the test. engcitguy: once we get into theme, we will also get into symbolism and irony, which are much more powerful tools engcitguy: any objections to Erics suggestion? FRECKLS4ME: no timallen8: NAYE engcitguy: lets talk about theme engcitguy: theme is a fundamental aspect of all literature, especially the type of literature we use in this class engcitguy: theme is the overriding idea or concept presented in the work engcitguy: it will be evident in the plot, the character presentation, the overall ideas presented in the story, the conflicts, as well as represented in the symbols and irony that the author uses to promote the story engcitguy: it permeates everything engcitguy: it is important to note that theme is not a moral to a story engcitguy: theme is not what the author is telling us to do EricLBecker1982: So theme is not equal to "The early bird catches the worm". engcitguy: exactly. theme does tell us how human beings react engcitguy: it is a general observation about life presented in this story timallen8: maybe we could discuss theme in the context of the stories we have read engcitguy: we will get there in a second engcitguy: when you state a theme, it will be complete sentence engcitguy: in MDG, what is the theme? engcitguy: try to avoid a single word timallen8: Guns don't hunt people; people do. engcitguy: avoid cliches or old sayings EricLBecker1982: That's a moral, isn't it? engcitguy: or morals engcitguy: avoid old sayings or morals phildo6966 has entered the room. engcitguy: what is the author pointing out about human behavior? phildo6966: sorry im late, took the server 12 attempts engcitguy: well timallen8: People can be evil engcitguy: yer here now phil engcitguy: is that supported by the entire text, tim>? EricLBecker1982: Sometimes people are not really the way that they present themselves to be. timallen8: Not the entire text. I suppose if Rainsford were an awful person it would girl5024: sorry, but i missed something, what's MDG? engcitguy: remember that although themes are general, they must be supported directly by the story. engcitguy: most dangerous game FRECKLS4ME: Most Dangerous Game engcitguy: thanks freckles girl5024: that's what i thought at first:-P girl5024: thanks EricLBecker1982: Zaroff presents himself as a calm, sane individual at first glance, but it turns out that he's got an insane taste for hunting members of his own race. engcitguy: a theme cannot be so general that it covers every story you've ever read engcitguy: but it must be general enough to encompass all of the action in the story FRECKLS4ME: is it the continual need for challenge timallen8: Does every story have a theme? engcitguy: yes in this class engcitguy: what about the continual need freckles engcitguy: make it into a sentence timallen8: The theme was Americans are the best and they prove it no matter where they go. FRECKLS4ME: ARP says that not all stories have a theme pg. 102. Does that mean in this class we will only be reading the ones that do. engcitguy: freckles, that is why I said "in this class" engcitguy: yes phildo6966: fiction? engcitguy: Allen, is the primary conflict between zaroff and Rainsford focused around who is American timallen8: No. engcitguy: or is the conflict deeper engcitguy: phill, I'm not sure what your question refers to timallen8: yes Zaroff is evil and Rainsford is not. There is something personal to this death match engcitguy: then generalize the theme within that context Allen timallen8: BOnnie - the theme is the triumph of good over evil phildo6966: all fiction has a theme? engcitguy: what about the triumph of good over evil timallen8: BOnnie-that good always prevails engcitguy: no phill, the fiction you read in this class will have a theme timallen8: Bonnie-except for in interpretive literature. MAybe. engcitguy: Bonnie, can you narrow the theme down to something a little more specific that would reflect the actual conflict that occurred in the story engcitguy: the whole idea behind theme is that the author is using story to make an observation about the world. In other words in thematic based stories, the purpose is in the theme... the method is the story engcitguy: for example, timallen8: The evil Mr. Zaroff will ultimately lose to the good Mr. Rainsford timallen8: or Mr. Zaroffs of the world if you will engcitguy: take out the names and you have a theme timallen8: Evil will ultimately lose to good engcitguy: theme is generalized enough that although it covers the story, it is not linked only to the story, but also to life itself timallen8: Which brings us to Once Upon A time engcitguy: actually, where I wanted to take this was fairy tales engcitguy: Little Red riding hood engcitguy: what is the author telling us about human nature in Little Red riding hood timallen8: Trusting others is dangerous engcitguy: yes girl5024: don't trust grandma if she has great big eyes haha engcitguy: what other aspect of the story is important to the story besides trusting others phildo6966: evil dies engcitguy: what did the girl not do that she was supposed to do timallen8: Talk to the wolf engcitguy: not do Allen FRECKLS4ME: go directly to grandmas house engcitguy: yes freckles EricLBecker1982: That many humans (represented by Red Riding Hood) are naive and susceptible to being deceived into breaking rules if someone who is ingenious enough (the wolf) can find a way to entice them. timallen8: Why does grandma live in the woods alone? engcitguy: yes Eric engcitguy: this is very old Germany Allen engcitguy: everyone lives in the woods timallen8: Why does Little Red Riding hoods mom send her through the forest alone? When there are wolves and lumberjacks EricLBecker1982: When was "Little Red Riding Hood" written? engcitguy: and the Wood z are representational engcitguy: in what way is little Red riding hood a universal idea engcitguy: instead of looking at the particulars... Woods wolves timallen8: Listen to your parents dumb littlekids engcitguy: generalized with the authors talking about and then discuss whether or not it is relevant to us today engcitguy: exactly engcitguy: obey them engcitguy: because what is out there? girl5024: that children shouldn't go out by themselves timallen8: BIG BAD WOLVES and insurance salesman engcitguy: at some point, girl, kids have to go by themselves engcitguy: what is a modern-day big bad wolf girl5024: little kids engcitguy: what is the modern-day woods L8T Jayde: don't talk to strangers timallen8: Bonnie - that is the way they learn timallen8: The hood FRECKLS4ME has left the room. timallen8: OR the Burbs EricLBecker1982: Modern-day woods...going home to an empty house with nothing to do. girl5024: drug dealers, rapists, murders engcitguy: girl, the girl is also symbolic engcitguy: what does a little girl represent timallen8: innocence engcitguy: yes engcitguy: the theme in this simple child's story is really about paying attention and being aware of the evils in the world EricLBecker1982: Modern-day big-bad-wolf? Drugs, sex, rock-n-roll and the whole shebang. Peers. Television. The media. Brittney Spears. engcitguy: especially spears EricLBecker1982: Pardon me, only one "t" in Britney Spears. engcitguy: (((((shuddering))) timallen8: in stereo engcitguy: that's okay, only my daughter would know the difference engcitguy: and she's not here engcitguy: because we can recognize the universality of the tale despite it being centered in 1600's Germany, a story has meaning and purpose for us engcitguy: likewise, when we read once upon a time, most of us can see there is a message for us, even if we do not live in South Africa girl5024: so the littlie girl is symbolic of innocence and the hunter who saves her is the good in the world defeating evil? engcitguy: that is because the authors theme is universal engcitguy: yes girl engcitguy: and wolf is bad influences engcitguy: and the woods it is a scary environment that is also uncertain engcitguy: that contains hidden dangers engcitguy: and the flowers that she stopped to pick, which allows the wolf to beat her to Grandma's house, are the things that draws away from our tasks timallen8: what about theme professor? engcitguy: in other words, the moral to Little Red riding Hood's story is don't talk to wolves or don't talk to strangers engcitguy: the theme is that we tend to disregard the council of our parents timallen8: Kids that speak to wolves are dumb engcitguy: and we tend to be easily distracted by things that on the surface seem pleasant timallen8: like candy engcitguy: notes that the theme is an observation about human behavior girl5024: to think this was just a children's story and we've turned it into a made for tv movie timallen8: ??????? engcitguy: and has nothing to do with wolves or little girls wearing red phildo6966: hello? timallen8: Hannibal? engcitguy: yes phil? phildo6966: ok sorry engcitguy: theme is a message about us that the author presents in the story... in other words the story is an example of that idea engcitguy: what is the main focus for Rainsford in most dangerous game timallen8: To survive engcitguy: what is the author telling us about survival timallen8: Bonnie - he is the good guy timallen8: It is important engcitguy: try again engcitguy: yes Bonnie but that is not Rainsford's goal L8T Jayde: To outsmart evil timallen8: he must survive to defeat the tyrannical Zaroff timallen8: and his friend IVan too engcitguy: yes J; yes Alan...according to the author, what does it take to defeat evil EricLBecker1982: Good. engcitguy: more than that timallen8: Good Americans engcitguy: more than that timallen8: Rainsford engcitguy: do we did the impression that Whitney would have survived the game phildo6966: honesty EricLBecker1982: It takes good and a situation where good and evil clash and sets up a situation where good has to defeat evil. engcitguy: getting closer phil timallen8: no he is too thoughtful. Only real men that do not hesitate to kill timallen8: when it is good to kill engcitguy: getting closer Allen engcitguy: what does Rainsford do or have to do to survive timallen8: Kill Zaroff EricLBecker1982: Instinct. phildo6966: gentlemanly duel engcitguy: what resources must he rely on EricLBecker1982: Logic. engcitguy: good answers Eric timallen8: Instinct. Malaysian traps phildo6966: experience engcitguy: generalize the second answer, allen engcitguy: yes phil timallen8: Good people often have to rely on their instincts to defeat evil engcitguy: generalized the evil... make irrelevant to you. For the modern-day reader, give analogy to zaroff EricLBecker1982: Hrmmm...that means there's better answers...instinct...logic....good answers....hmmm.....he has to have the will to survive. timallen8: irrelevant? engcitguy: Allen, that is the best theme you've given all today engcitguy: yes Eric timallen8: awe shucks engcitguy: give me a modern-day Zaroff engcitguy: it does not be a person EricLBecker1982: Saddam Hussein. timallen8: Analogy to Zaroff = Quadaffi timallen8: Noriega. timallen8: Drug lords from hell. engcitguy: how likely are you to run into any of those people girl5024: someone or something that likes to hunt people? L8T Jayde: drugs engcitguy: thinking day-to-day existence timallen8: If you are Crocodile Dundee very likely engcitguy: for some people, yes, J. timallen8: Landlords timallen8: Lawyers L8T Jayde: poverty engcitguy: remember that theme is relevant to most people, not the individuals who stand out in society girl5024: likely just walking down the street EricLBecker1982: My supervisor....appears nice, but deep down isn't. ::Laughs:: timallen8: HMO engcitguy: better answers Allen engcitguy: good answer girl engcitguy: good answer Eric engcitguy: just like we saw a little Red riding hood, with the wolf, Zaroff represents what we face everyday timallen8: Bonnie -challenges engcitguy: and the theme is based around that survival of that bad thing... but thing that seeks to destroy us engcitguy: exactly Bonnie timallen8: Bonnie Problems L8T Jayde: society engcitguy: theme does not mention the specific characters or even specific plot of the work engcitguy: yes Bonnie yes J. timallen8: Always generalize to the point we do not know the specifics of a story engcitguy: but at the same time is reflected directly in the story engcitguy: for instance, if we were to over generalize the theme in most dangerous game, we could apply it to once upon a time engcitguy: survival has its risks L8T Jayde: Like, In a perfect world one is never really safe. Once Upon A Time engcitguy: or something like that timallen8: No in a perfect world One would be safe. They certainly wouldn't have racial oppression timallen8: or needs for gates and barbed wire engcitguy: but the theme for once upon a time will be quite different from most dangerous game because the plot line and characters are different and the authors are pointing to a specific theme timallen8: Yup engcitguy: try a theme for once upon a time timallen8: security does not come from gadgets and doohickeys engcitguy: okay engcitguy: anyone else EricLBecker1982: Someone's surface does not always indicate the way that they really are. L8T Jayde: Obsession will only destroy that which we set out to protect. engcitguy: remember that there may be several themes in a good story. These themes may be related, and even very similar, but they will be reflected from different angles. It is like looking at a multisided object from different angles timallen8: As long as there is poverty and racial oppression there is no security engcitguy: Eric, you would have to show me that the surface and under the service are different engcitguy: good theme J. engcitguy: good theme Allen EricLBecker1982: Throughout the story, we focus on this need to NOT be racist and to protect ourselves in order to prove that we're not racist and to prove we're not racist, we need to not include the race we're not being racist against in our lives...that's something that reigns throughout "Once Upon A Time". engcitguy: within that context Eric, your theme works. And as long as you could apply that to most of the major characters, it would work engcitguy: paper two will be based on theme EricLBecker1982: All right. engcitguy: we will use various devices, setting, point of view, and symbolism to illustrate how the author gets the theme across in the work timallen8: Bonnie -when are we going to start the next paper engcitguy: we will review theme and began discussing setting and point of view next week engcitguy: as soon as you hand in paper one Bonnie timallen8: Should we begin reading a new story engcitguy: the two next stories should be together... LOVE IN LA and the father engcitguy: read them and tried to figure out what theme the author is showing us. Both of them are incredibly short girl5024: when is the second paper due? engcitguy: I will announce a due date in a couple weeks. Figure about four or five weeks from now engcitguy: read both for next week engcitguy: we will discuss answers to bride, and then start on those immediately engcitguy: any questions EricLBecker1982: None here. engcitguy: finish your papers L8T Jayde: here neither girl5024: just some clarifications about the paper engcitguy: take your test engcitguy: go-ahead girl girl5024: will we be marked down if we don't critique anyone else's paper on turnitin engcitguy: your participation will be girl5024: or get ours critiqued engcitguy: for the last paper, yes timallen8: we have to go to turnitin for integrated engcitguy: no Tim engcitguy: whether you exchange papers by e-mail, at eternity and, or in class, or on campus, it makes no difference to me girl5024: you're talking about integrated right? engcitguy: any class engcitguy: find another English student to help you discuss your paper. Turn it in.com is just one way engcitguy: anything else phildo6966: nope EricLBecker1982: Not here. engcitguy: then I will see you all next week timallen8: No girl5024: bye timallen8: See ya engcitguy: bye girl phildo6966: adios engcitguy: bye bonnie timallen8: Bonnie - bye:-) engcitguy: hasta luegos, sr phil EricLBecker1982: All right, bye everyone! engcitguy: bye tim engcitguy: bye eric engcitguy: poof EricLBecker1982: POOF! EricLBecker1982 has left the room. phildo6966 has left the room. timallen8 has left the room. girl5024 has left the room. L8T Jayde: bye engcitguy: bye j engcitguy: repoof