You have just entered room "englitguy Chat53." Zrron has entered the room. signergirl2 has entered the room. signergirl2: Hi Sharron, Mr. Eiland englitguy: hold on a sec signergirl2: Ok signergirl2: What are we talking about tonight? englitguy: worn path englitguy: symbols signergirl2: Oh wow...I think that's the hardest part of that story englitguy: yes SuperT27 has entered the room. SuperT27: hi all signergirl2: I do have a question, when we discuss symbols, or theme, or whatever, is the symbolism used done on purpose, or do the readers come up with a lot of it? signergirl2: Hi Tony englitguy: both signergirl2: So do the authors ever write and explain things like theme or symbols? englitguy: we will take for granted that they intended much of it englitguy: we must take into account when it was written englitguy: and theme englitguy: so we don't get led astray' signergirl2: Ok, I'm just curious because of my classes in high school, etc., where we studied a lot of writers that died a long time ago, so the question "how do we know" comes to mind englitguy: yes englitguy: and we cant apply modern symbols...TV etc to old stories signergirl2: True, use of symbols is definitely culture-related englitguy: and setting related signergirl2: So last week when we said the animals Phoenix named were symbols, well, what would indicate that they were, as opposed to simply a "list" of animals that were normal in that area? englitguy: let's start with the name first englitguy: il show you m talking in terms of personification, not so much reality dysondeb: k, englitguy: in other words, what do the fox and the owl having, when we apply these terms to human being. And How are they different either subtly or not subtly SuperT27: hmmm....owls are wise.. a fox is sly signergirl2: Foxes almost enjoy the hunt, owls are quieter and only hunt for necessity... englitguy: SuperT which would you trust SuperT27: owl englitguy: signergirl, get away from the descriptions of the animal and referred to descriptions of the human SuperT27: a fox will rob the hen house SuperT27: an owl will hunt more fairly signergirl2: Well, that's why I meant the "enjoying" the hunt...some humans are like that... englitguy: remember, folks. If these are symbols, and they are, then we must focus on the symbolic nature of them, and not so much the literal. Certainly the attributes that you describe our correct. englitguy: however, when we're talking about the human aspect want to be able to apply these to individual people englitguy: who is the owl she finds englitguy: who is the fox she runs into signergirl2: I'd say the nurse that helps her is the owl englitguy: in what way englitguy: a symbol and its concept share attributes englitguy: and so the description of 1 will be the description of the other englitguy: SuperT, would you think of Fox is englitguy: the Fox is SuperT27: hmmm SuperT27: that's tough... i had a hard time with the symbolism signergirl2: Well, the nurse was familiar with Phoenix and offered her a seat while she helped her by getting information and giving her the medicine englitguy: dysondeb... what does hog referred to in this story or when applied to human beings englitguy: how is she an owl specifically SuperT27: would the fox be the hunter who dropped the nickel but said he had no money englitguy: signergirl? englitguy: in what way SuperT SuperT27: he was sly... kind to phoenix but back-handed in his words englitguy: gd answer SuperT englitguy: what does the jack rabbit referred to an applied to the story signergirl2: She was wise enough to give her the medicine quickly without making her feel bad englitguy: better answer signergirl englitguy: you applied the wisdom aspect of the owl to the person englitguy: that is important when making a symbolic link clear englitguy: signergirl, who does the coon refer to signergirl2: Hmm the coon... well, not sure, but coon is a slang term for black people in the south englitguy: good or bad signergirl englitguy: what does the rabbit refer to? in fact, this is something that you all alluded to earlier trkirby1: Just as it took time to untangle her dress Zrron: crossing the log-who had the log englitguy: what happened if she overly resisted the thorns englitguy: or the hunter signergirl2: Pge 438, it was over a creek, paragraph 10 englitguy: Mckeedz had the log Zrron: she would be hurt Mckeedz: she would get hurt englitguy: yes, Z. trkirby1: The end of her Zrron: taking her time will get her to the next point englitguy: yes Mckeedz englitguy: affirmative signergirl2: Right, thinking instead of reacting emotionally englitguy: finally, a question I asked earlier but was not clarified englitguy: how does she get across the log englitguy: closing her eyes is a specific englitguy: tells what it means englitguy: and our reflects on how some of us get through obstacles in life englitguy: what she relying on Mckeedz: trust Zrron: she can see better about life with her eye closed, she see things very clearly signergirl2: Closing her eyes means she doesn't want to see the obstacle (and be distracted by the sight of it), she just grimaces and hurries across Zrron: she trust her instincts englitguy: trust in what or whom Mckeedz signergirl2: In her abilities instead of being distracted by the obstacle englitguy: why, Z. trkirby1: she is trusting in humanity englitguy: Kirby, is humanity going to help her across englitguy: is humanity there to help her trkirby1: and time that will cure signergirl2: NOBODY is there to help her Mckeedz: she trust that if she just follows and obeys then she will make it through Zrron: her instinct have helped her to survive up to this point. She know what is expected and she know how to make the best of all situations. signergirl2: Yes, Z, you just do the best you can and not worry about the rest englitguy: what does she say before she crosses the log Zrron: now come the trial Mckeedz: now comes the trial signergirl2: I wonder if that was the scariest part up till then, because right after she gets across she sits to rest Zrron: she trusted herself and made it through. her mission is to survive Zrron: the worst was the chains when she was very young trkirby1: She trusted God? englitguy: howl does she make her way across the log? Look at the authors description Zrron: putting her right out, englitguy: what does she do with her cane Mckeedz: marching signergirl2: That's kinda funny, she lifted her skirt, "leveled her cane" fiercely before her, and she looked like part of a parade Zrron: leveling her can fiercely before her englitguy: meaning? Mckeedz: leveling her can fiercely before her signergirl2: Maybe she was hoping the cane would be something to hold on to and help her keep her balance? Mckeedz: she was confident Zrron: so proud of herself englitguy: what kind of balance has she had to maintain in her life in order to get through its trials englitguy: you all have mentioned it several times Zrron: the right path, which means understanding what she must do all the time signergirl2: Balance between thought and emotion trkirby1: Playing both sides Zrron: knowing both sides and using them at the right time englitguy: what happens if she allows emotion to win signergirl signergirl2: She loses the battle and maybe even her life Mckeedz: the balance of surviving englitguy: disease answer sounds a little as Fox the then Kirby's answer trkirby1: Or knowing when to make a stand and when to let the river take you. englitguy: better answer Kirby englitguy: much better englitguy: the library will have some misinformation, but any college library will have much more information than ours, as ours is being rebuilt Mckeedz: from any source? Zrron: the story "everyday use" englitguy: Mckeedz, from any source that is credible englitguy: that is one of the three choices, Z trkirby1: great story Mckeedz: and it is due on the 10th signergirl2: That's the one I picked, Z :) Zrron: ok that my choice trkirby1: me toooooo englitguy: yes Mckeedz Zrron: by email?? englitguy: yes, Z. Mckeedz: symbolism is too interpretive signergirl2: OH, is it alright to use internet sources? englitguy: yes signergirl but it has to be in educational source englitguy: not really Mckeedz englitguy: in that a symbol is only a symbol if it makes sense to both the story into the theme being developed the author. signergirl2: Ok... I think what I plan to use is from an educational source.... if I'm remembering right. trkirby1: Got to go. see ya next week. englitguy: in other words, the red octagon means something in most cultures, so even if it didn't say a STOP, you probably would still slowdown your car englitguy: bye Kirby Mckeedz: so the secondary source is on the author itself englitguy: okay girl trkirby1 has left the room. englitguy: it can be, or can be on the story itself Zrron: example pleeeeeeeeese englitguy: either one is okay. You may use more than 1. You must use it directly Mckeedz: oh ok englitguy: in other words, you must quote directly from the secondary source signergirl2: OH, so you can use the secondary source as background on the author? Zrron: comparisons Mckeedz: ok signergirl2: And you don't HAVE to use it for the story itself? englitguy: signergirl, I want you to use the second resource as support for your point. The authors background may be a secondary source. englitguy: and everything reflect back on the meaning of story signergirl2: That's what I intended to do, show the author's background as how it influenced her story englitguy: bolt by the paper is the story, nothing else englitguy: good, girl Mckeedz: nite all englitguy: anything else folks? englitguy: by Mckeedz Mckeedz has left the room. signergirl2: What a difference a comma makes :) englitguy: its why I'm an English teacher signergirl2: LOL Zrron: gone for me Zrron has left the room. englitguy: by Z. signergirl2: bye englitguy: by signergirl englitguy: by SuperT signergirl2 has left the room. englitguy: poof